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Dec 23, 2012
12/12
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leader mitch mcconnell has guided our party and our conference through the past six years. he is a gifted leader and one that i have witnessed time and again has come up with strategies that have gotten things done in the right way. senator jon kyl and i have worked on immigration and death tax relief. senator lamar alexander and i have championed the america competes act so that we would continue the priity of scientific research and that we would never fail to invest in our future because it is the sequel for our economy. i am very pleased that the distguished ranking member of the judiciary committeend the finance committee, finance committee now and judiciary before, is also on the floor and has been a wonderful friend to me, helping me in my very first election when he was the rock star at my fund-raisers in texas. and i thank senator orrin hatch for his long leadership in ts body. and i have had the wonderful good fortune to serve with two colleagues from my home state. first, senator phil gramm, who was a wonderful mentor and colleague. they broke the mold after sena
leader mitch mcconnell has guided our party and our conference through the past six years. he is a gifted leader and one that i have witnessed time and again has come up with strategies that have gotten things done in the right way. senator jon kyl and i have worked on immigration and death tax relief. senator lamar alexander and i have championed the america competes act so that we would continue the priity of scientific research and that we would never fail to invest in our future because it...
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Dec 27, 2012
12/12
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whether mcconnell will filibuster such a deal and will boehner allow a vote. the strategy he indicated moments ago. that doesn't look like good news with the frosty exchange of statements between house speaker boehner yesterday and majority leader reid. the statements indicated this political paralysis we have been stuck in for several days. the question is he seems out and can they do the little things to get us past the deadline. >> i want to go back to you. procedurally, we know how hard it is for any type of bill, even if they agreed on it to move forward by that deadline. explain why that's so hard? >> consider the likelihood that mitch mcconnell does not insist on that plateau. such a bill that goes back to the house of representatives, the senate sent the same bill back to the house in august. how is john boehner going to get the votes for that when he couldn't get the votes for plan b to raise taxes on only those making $1 million a year. it seems unlikely that the current course we are in will be the solution. we have gone nowhere here. peter is right
whether mcconnell will filibuster such a deal and will boehner allow a vote. the strategy he indicated moments ago. that doesn't look like good news with the frosty exchange of statements between house speaker boehner yesterday and majority leader reid. the statements indicated this political paralysis we have been stuck in for several days. the question is he seems out and can they do the little things to get us past the deadline. >> i want to go back to you. procedurally, we know how...
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Dec 26, 2012
12/12
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we know there's not been communication between boehner and mcconnell, obama and boehner. are you amazed with this short amount of time to go there seems to be no sense of urgency on either side? >> am i amazed, given what we went through with the debt ceiling, no, i'm not amazed. i think there are forces here in this town that would like for us, sure people would like for there to be a deal, but going over the cliff on january 1st when there's this notion where it's not really a cliff, it's a slope, it's a curb depending who you talk to, that you can repair the damage if you get a deal done, you know, a few days after january 3rd. i think people feel like they can slow walk. as we saw last week when plan b failed, you know, speaker boehner said it's up to the white house and the democrats to come up with a deal. >> washing my hands with it. what's interesting is what you just touched on, conventional wisdom has grown now to it's a cliff, it's a cliff, we can't go off it, to we're okay for two to three weeks afterwards, the treasury can stay in place. do you think they wan
we know there's not been communication between boehner and mcconnell, obama and boehner. are you amazed with this short amount of time to go there seems to be no sense of urgency on either side? >> am i amazed, given what we went through with the debt ceiling, no, i'm not amazed. i think there are forces here in this town that would like for us, sure people would like for there to be a deal, but going over the cliff on january 1st when there's this notion where it's not really a cliff,...
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Dec 24, 2012
12/12
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senate majority leader harry reid, minority leader mitch mcconnell will have to work together. a lot of focus shifts to mcdonnell. he has to try to get something that will pass with republicans that they can get through the house and senate, but i think president obama certainly has a role to play. remember, he is the one who ran on the platform. >>> you heard him map out on friday. he would like a scaled-back version of the grand bargain, something to prevent taxes going up, and also lay the groundwork potentially for deficit reduction in the future. i think you will see president obama cut his vacation short, and continue to play a role in those negotiations. richard. >>> kristin, over the weekend, he attended the funeral for the late senator inouye, who he has called an inspiration to him. what did you see in that service? >> well, more than 20 members of congress attended, mostly democrats, majority leader harry reid spoke and praised senator inouye for his partisan spirit, reaching across the aisle. of course in an earlier memorial service, the president called the late se
senate majority leader harry reid, minority leader mitch mcconnell will have to work together. a lot of focus shifts to mcdonnell. he has to try to get something that will pass with republicans that they can get through the house and senate, but i think president obama certainly has a role to play. remember, he is the one who ran on the platform. >>> you heard him map out on friday. he would like a scaled-back version of the grand bargain, something to prevent taxes going up, and also...
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Dec 24, 2012
12/12
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what about senate minority leader mitch mcconnell? >> well, the thing at this point and i'm told by sources is that there are no negotiations going on between senator mitch mcconnell, the republican leader in the senate, and senator majority leader harry reid in hawaii for the funeral of daniel inouye and is now back to washington. it would come down to the senate doing something. senator mcconnell might allow this bill i mentioned that i already passed in july, was a threshold for tax hikes, being at the $250,000 level, he may allow democrats to say, the house has to take this, or if there is some sort of vote on another measure, while mitch mcconnell would be unlikely to support it, perhaps he might let some of his republican senators do that, now, this is sort of thinking, coming from democrats, this is not something that mitch mcconnell at this point is planning to do, and it's very much unclear. the fact is, it doesn't just matter what the senate does, don, the house would have to pass something. and whatever were to come out of
what about senate minority leader mitch mcconnell? >> well, the thing at this point and i'm told by sources is that there are no negotiations going on between senator mitch mcconnell, the republican leader in the senate, and senator majority leader harry reid in hawaii for the funeral of daniel inouye and is now back to washington. it would come down to the senate doing something. senator mcconnell might allow this bill i mentioned that i already passed in july, was a threshold for tax...
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Dec 28, 2012
12/12
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remember, we have to have that first vote done in a timely way so that both senator reid and senator mcconnell can leave to have the designated meeting with president obama. mr. cochran: mr. president, let me join with the senator from maryland in commending all senators for the expeditious way we've been able to move this bill but particularly the chairwoman herself, who's provided strong leadership, capable leadership, fairness, a sense of fairness for all senators, and i thank her for the honor of serving with her on this committee. the presiding officer: under the previous order, the senate senatorses can attend the weekly caucus meetings. this morning they approve and extension of the farm intelligence v it allows the government to continue intercepting overseas communication. it extends legal immunity phone companies that help the government wiretap the domestic phone calls. president obama plans to sign the bill. when the senate is back we are expecting senators to continued work on the $60 billion hurricane sandy relief package. negotiations continue on avoiding the so-called fiscal cl
remember, we have to have that first vote done in a timely way so that both senator reid and senator mcconnell can leave to have the designated meeting with president obama. mr. cochran: mr. president, let me join with the senator from maryland in commending all senators for the expeditious way we've been able to move this bill but particularly the chairwoman herself, who's provided strong leadership, capable leadership, fairness, a sense of fairness for all senators, and i thank her for the...
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Dec 27, 2012
12/12
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mcconnell: i'm going to proceed in my leader time. the presiding officer: the senator has that right. mr. mcconnell: madam president, you'll excuse me if i'm a little frustrated at the situation we find ourselves in, but last night president obama called myself and the speaker and maybe others from hawaii and asked if there was something weekend do to avoid the fiscal cliff. i say i'm a little frustrated because we've been asking the president and the democrats to work with us on a bipartisan agreement for months, literally for months. a plan that would simplify the tax code, shrink the deficit, protect the taxpayers, and grow the economy. but democrats consistently rejected those offers. the president chose instead to spend his time on the campaign trail. this was even after he got reelected. and congressional democrats sat on their hands. now republicans have bent over backwards. we stepped way, way out of our comfort zone. we wanted an agreement, but we had no takers. the phone never rang. and so now here we are five days from the
mcconnell: i'm going to proceed in my leader time. the presiding officer: the senator has that right. mr. mcconnell: madam president, you'll excuse me if i'm a little frustrated at the situation we find ourselves in, but last night president obama called myself and the speaker and maybe others from hawaii and asked if there was something weekend do to avoid the fiscal cliff. i say i'm a little frustrated because we've been asking the president and the democrats to work with us on a bipartisan...
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Dec 26, 2012
12/12
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>> the ball seems to be in mitch mcconnell's court. does he filibuster anything that harry reid ends up making with president obama? we have a paired down legislation extending for income below $250,000 and doing something with unemployment insurance that you were talking about? the question is a senate filibuster, democrats need 60 votes and republican votes, mcconnell ends up filibustering and will there be senators who support the legislation and blocking the filibuster. a lot of gymsmanship and republicans when you lock at the situation in the house and the inability to pass along the other things, they are on the verge of taking a lot of blame if they filibuster the legislation and the house doesn't act on it. >> and only democratic support developing here. how much is he going to agree with the president when he has the election in 2014? some folks don't want to appear in any way too close to president obama right now. >> let's move on in terms of massachusetts. we got the information that ted kennedy jr. will not run. scott brow
>> the ball seems to be in mitch mcconnell's court. does he filibuster anything that harry reid ends up making with president obama? we have a paired down legislation extending for income below $250,000 and doing something with unemployment insurance that you were talking about? the question is a senate filibuster, democrats need 60 votes and republican votes, mcconnell ends up filibustering and will there be senators who support the legislation and blocking the filibuster. a lot of...
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Dec 23, 2012
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according to mcconnell supporters he prefers biden who is known by some in the west wing as the mcconnell whisperrer because he sees negotiating as a political horse trading. would it make sense for joe biden to handleal the situation or to negotiate himself? >> i think the price president biden is very adept at handling this situation if the president wants him to do so. this issue was discussed, debated and decided in the november election. and so i know senator mcconnell might want vice president biden to work with him on this issue but it's the president who was selected by the american people to move forward on his agenda. so regardless of what senator mcconnell wants we need to come up with a solution to this issue. >> politico reports his new toughness is rooted in the nature of his convincing november win. so either of you who feels like starting, does the president deserve any blame for the collapse of negotiations or is it expected given that he did win the election? >> he did win the election but has to take some sort of blame, as well. if you look at the great negotiations bet
according to mcconnell supporters he prefers biden who is known by some in the west wing as the mcconnell whisperrer because he sees negotiating as a political horse trading. would it make sense for joe biden to handleal the situation or to negotiate himself? >> i think the price president biden is very adept at handling this situation if the president wants him to do so. this issue was discussed, debated and decided in the november election. and so i know senator mcconnell might want...
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Dec 27, 2012
12/12
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reid, mcconnell, boehner and pelosi. . joining me to talk more, we have peter alexander standing by at the white house as well as nbc's mike viqueira on capitol hill. some verbal smackdown, basically flipping the lights back on and harry reid taking to the floor to eviscerate speaker boehner. >> the sad part is you often seen the floor opened that way. mitch mcconnell being later today. i'm sure we'll hear something later. to hear it two days after christmas and a matter of days before we go through the fiscal cliff, obviously not encouraging. harry reid says time is running hout. he doesn't know if they could go through the legislative hurdles. if they have the votes around here, they can legislate the sky is green and the grass is blue. that's not an issue. what harry reid is really saying is mitch mcconnell, get on board, don't try to filibuster. of course they're talking about a bill that had raise capital on couples making more than $250,000 a year, and do a few other nuts and bolts that are deemed the bare minimum th
reid, mcconnell, boehner and pelosi. . joining me to talk more, we have peter alexander standing by at the white house as well as nbc's mike viqueira on capitol hill. some verbal smackdown, basically flipping the lights back on and harry reid taking to the floor to eviscerate speaker boehner. >> the sad part is you often seen the floor opened that way. mitch mcconnell being later today. i'm sure we'll hear something later. to hear it two days after christmas and a matter of days before we...
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Dec 23, 2012
12/12
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finally, mitch mcconnell has stayed on offense. on the senate floor on friday he argued the democrats poisoned the well by declaring boehner's plan b dead on arrival. >> and he is up for reelection in 2014. by all polling, it looks like it will be a lot tougher. he also has a colleague in rand paul, who is a tea partier. you put all those factors together and it could be that mcconnell may have to step up because that is what you have to do to get some sort of deal at the moment, we have not seen that happen. host: from mark williams, what will be specifically affected in the economy if we go over the cliff? guest: instead of giving you my own numbers, let me use the congressional budget office estimates. if we go over the cliff, and if the clip stays in place for the whole year -- clef stays in place for the whole year, gdp will go into negative territory. that will push this into a short-term recession. economic growth below zero. unemployment will rise from current levels to about 9%. we will put in place the worst fiscal policy
finally, mitch mcconnell has stayed on offense. on the senate floor on friday he argued the democrats poisoned the well by declaring boehner's plan b dead on arrival. >> and he is up for reelection in 2014. by all polling, it looks like it will be a lot tougher. he also has a colleague in rand paul, who is a tea partier. you put all those factors together and it could be that mcconnell may have to step up because that is what you have to do to get some sort of deal at the moment, we have...
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Dec 27, 2012
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>> senator mcconnell's probably in the best position. he's in very close touch with the president, the white house and democrats in both the senate and the house have been in very close coordination throughout this. they have been in lockstep. it was interesting to note that when we saw the plan "b" chaos just before christmas the house democrats stood firm. they stood united. historically, that's not the play of the democratic party but that does seem to be where the democrats are right now. the president is back today so there can be an opportunity for some discussions to resume. but boehner has made it clear that's it up to the senate at least in his opinion to make the next move. >> david, senator reid today accused speaker boehner of ca caring more about his job than, quote, keeping america on firm financial footing. >> right. >> that's the quote there. congressman tom cole asked about that earlier today. this was his answer. take a listen. >> he had the complete support of everybody for plan "b" and support in terms of speakership
>> senator mcconnell's probably in the best position. he's in very close touch with the president, the white house and democrats in both the senate and the house have been in very close coordination throughout this. they have been in lockstep. it was interesting to note that when we saw the plan "b" chaos just before christmas the house democrats stood firm. they stood united. historically, that's not the play of the democratic party but that does seem to be where the democrats...
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Dec 22, 2012
12/12
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>> mcconnell is worried. he and polling about ashley judd, if he is polling he is worried. his numbers are not great and his colleague was not his choice, rand paul, to be the other senate, he was the tea party candidate. so mitch mcconnell is worried. >> she can bring in a lot of outside money, coming in from around the country and hollywood. >> she can, she has a few problems. she lives in tennessee and scott land where her husband is from. so a lot of kentucky voters will say, what does she have to do with us anymore. she has name recognition though, and in the game of running for political office that is important. >> another development, south carolina, nicki haley there announcing she was picking congressman tim scott to replace jim demint. and scott will be the only african american in the senate and one of only a handful in the history of the senate. who will replace scott may be the question here. ? well there's certainly any number of candidates, strom thurmond ran against tim scott before. there's always the possibility, mark san ford, this will be a hotly contes
>> mcconnell is worried. he and polling about ashley judd, if he is polling he is worried. his numbers are not great and his colleague was not his choice, rand paul, to be the other senate, he was the tea party candidate. so mitch mcconnell is worried. >> she can bring in a lot of outside money, coming in from around the country and hollywood. >> she can, she has a few problems. she lives in tennessee and scott land where her husband is from. so a lot of kentucky voters will...
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Dec 23, 2012
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and it seems that unlikely that senate minority leader mitch mcconnell would want to negotiating? that he doesn't feel will be able to also pass the house, which would require the support of some house republicans and that's part of the reason why this is such a difficult task and it has really been thrown into question whether or not the country is going over the fiscal cliff. the senate will reconvene, it is on xenlg actual reconvene september 27th that is on thursday. and i think the expectation is that at some point, president obama would go back to washington, especially if there's this possibility that the country goes off of the fiscal cliff. he wouldn't obviously want to be here in hawaii when that happens, miguel. >> just sounds like it is a very complicated game of chicken. the president is attending a very somber event today. the body of hawaii senator daniel inouye is being interred. what can you say about the ceremony? >> reporter: this is the national cemetery of the pacific, referred here in honolulu as the punch bowl. this is a cemetery where a number of people who
and it seems that unlikely that senate minority leader mitch mcconnell would want to negotiating? that he doesn't feel will be able to also pass the house, which would require the support of some house republicans and that's part of the reason why this is such a difficult task and it has really been thrown into question whether or not the country is going over the fiscal cliff. the senate will reconvene, it is on xenlg actual reconvene september 27th that is on thursday. and i think the...
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Dec 27, 2012
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the only thing that would prevent it is if senator mcconnell and speaker boehner don't cooperate. this is from the white house yesterday. do you believe that to be the case? >> no, i don't believe that to be the case. listen, a year ago august when the president was negotiating with the speaker, they were very close to the big deal that needs to be struck. and this isn't a one party or a one house problem. this is leaders of both parties and all branches of the government are not willing to make the deal that they know they have to make, and everybody wants their stuff but doesn't want to give up, you know, what they don't want to give up. >> you know, we're showing pictures right now of john boehner and president obama. john boehner from your state of ohio. there are a lot of people that say if the deal were between these two guys, it would be made. the problem is john boehner can't agree to something with president obama and then take it back to his own party. >> well, and vice versa. a year ago august the president couldn't agree to the deal he needed another $400 billion in re
the only thing that would prevent it is if senator mcconnell and speaker boehner don't cooperate. this is from the white house yesterday. do you believe that to be the case? >> no, i don't believe that to be the case. listen, a year ago august when the president was negotiating with the speaker, they were very close to the big deal that needs to be struck. and this isn't a one party or a one house problem. this is leaders of both parties and all branches of the government are not willing...
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Dec 27, 2012
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as for the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, i think that is a good one. a lot has been made in the past few days about him taking a higher profile role in these negotiations. while i don't like prognosticating into the future, we can look at the past in some of the previous negotiations of congress and the kind of role he has played. almost all of these talks, whether it was about government shutdown in the spring of 2011 or the debt limit debate in the summer of 2011 or the payroll tax-cut debate last year, those negotiations started at a level between the president and speaker but always broke down at that level and that pushed to the senate where harry reid and mitch mcconnell had to figure something out and get enough votes for it so they could give some cover to the house republicans, who were joined by a large majority of house democrats to get something done. the idea that we have come to this state is not necessarily surprising. that it has taken us so long to get there has probably frustrated everyone who wanted to take a holiday break. if mitch
as for the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, i think that is a good one. a lot has been made in the past few days about him taking a higher profile role in these negotiations. while i don't like prognosticating into the future, we can look at the past in some of the previous negotiations of congress and the kind of role he has played. almost all of these talks, whether it was about government shutdown in the spring of 2011 or the debt limit debate in the summer of 2011 or the payroll...
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Dec 25, 2012
12/12
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it is not clear whether mitch mcconnell wants to play a role because he has a campaign coming in 2014. for some people on the far right, the idea that mitch mcconnell would make a deal with obama could be acceptable. you have 10 or more republican senators who say they are willing to do business with president obama in terms of approving an increase in the marginal tax rates. if that is the case, if you could get them to pass some kind of bill and then send it on to the house, and all boehner said was i will allow a vote, and you have democrats and some republicans feeling pressure joining in, you could get a bill done. host: rick is from massachusetts on our independent line. caller: good morning. i have a problem with the president. he is the most divisive individual who has come to power in this country for a long time. he completely denied his white relatives and blames all the problems on white men by buying the votes of the lower earners in this country by saying it is not your fault. he promised to bring this country to gather. what happened? guest: i am surprised. upper income
it is not clear whether mitch mcconnell wants to play a role because he has a campaign coming in 2014. for some people on the far right, the idea that mitch mcconnell would make a deal with obama could be acceptable. you have 10 or more republican senators who say they are willing to do business with president obama in terms of approving an increase in the marginal tax rates. if that is the case, if you could get them to pass some kind of bill and then send it on to the house, and all boehner...
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Dec 22, 2012
12/12
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now it does go to the senate where harry reid and mcconnell can try to come to some, you know, functional su render for republicans and kick the cannon a lot of other issues and see if that can pass in the next ten days am buts that still has to pass the house. and so i think the chances of backing off of the cliff are higher than they ever have been. >> you know, i listened to some of these recalcitrant house republicans today, mark. and they were saying, i was to the going to vote for a tax increase when my constituent was never have gone along with that. >> well, i think there are two realities, here, judy. first of all there's a lot of republicans, more than a few democrats who are terrified of one thing, that's being primary, primary opponent without going to run on your right if you are a republican. on your left if you are a democrat. it's really become a problem for republicans. because this has been an article of faith that said before it is since 1990 that any republican in the house or the senate voted for a tax increase on capitol hill. any republican. now of the 2 41 republic
now it does go to the senate where harry reid and mcconnell can try to come to some, you know, functional su render for republicans and kick the cannon a lot of other issues and see if that can pass in the next ten days am buts that still has to pass the house. and so i think the chances of backing off of the cliff are higher than they ever have been. >> you know, i listened to some of these recalcitrant house republicans today, mark. and they were saying, i was to the going to vote for a...
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Dec 27, 2012
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it's not clear whether mitch mcconnell or other senators in the republican party will allow that to move forward. if something passes in the senate, i think it's likely that the house will follow suit. i think that takes the pressure off john boehner a little bit in terms of bringing something to the floor that his minions don't love. >> take care, drew. >>> two firefighters shot and wounded on christmas eve are improving and starting physical therapy. joseph hoffstetter and the other firefighter were shot after being called to a fire. we are starting to hear the 911 calls. >> multiple firemen down. multiple firemen shot. i am shot. i think it was an assault rifle. >> volunteers from other areas have stepped in to help the webster fire department. >> we're all family, yep, brothers and sisters. it will be a long time before this department gets over this. i understand, if they need us to come back and help out we'll be here. >> police say william spengler set the fire to lure the firefighters into a trap. he eventually killed himself. his sister was also found dead. >>> how does a small
it's not clear whether mitch mcconnell or other senators in the republican party will allow that to move forward. if something passes in the senate, i think it's likely that the house will follow suit. i think that takes the pressure off john boehner a little bit in terms of bringing something to the floor that his minions don't love. >> take care, drew. >>> two firefighters shot and wounded on christmas eve are improving and starting physical therapy. joseph hoffstetter and the...
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Dec 30, 2012
12/12
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you heard senator mcconnell talk about that on the floor. we are still awaiting a counteroffer by the democrats. and there was an indication that we could have received that by 10:00 this morning. we have yet to receive it. but there are discussions that continue. senator mcconnell and vice president biden are continuing to discuss this and we think there perhaps still could be a path forward. the one thing that is a, you know, democrats come out and made a big deal out of chained cpi, republicans are very concerned that if that not be used as an offset to reduce or to replace some of the spending cuts that you would occur in the sequester, that democrats put forward an alternative and so this is a process. obviously, there's a lot of give and take going on now, but republicans don't want to see new revenues, in other words, democrat tax increases, be used for new spending. so that's sort of where many of our members have drawn the line now. >> that is where it times to be one of the big road blocks are right now, democrats -- you-all want t
you heard senator mcconnell talk about that on the floor. we are still awaiting a counteroffer by the democrats. and there was an indication that we could have received that by 10:00 this morning. we have yet to receive it. but there are discussions that continue. senator mcconnell and vice president biden are continuing to discuss this and we think there perhaps still could be a path forward. the one thing that is a, you know, democrats come out and made a big deal out of chained cpi,...
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Dec 22, 2012
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so house republicans have kind of abdicated their role in this to the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. if perhaps he could get on board with something with democrats in the senate to move along, presumably that might be able to be pushed through the house. the house republicans at least some of them, would have to vote on that in order to pass it so they have some i guess influence in that regard, but really they've given away a lot of their -- almost all of their influence on what this package can ultimately look like. >> oh, dear, i'm not smelling a lot of hope. aloha. thank you very much, brianna keilar. >>> it's a wintry mess for much of the country today as americans gear up for holiday travel. this midwest blizzard is now ripping across the northeast. most of the problems are from high winds as high as 40 miles per hour. aaa predicts some 93 million americans will travel between now and new year's. but if the roads look anything like this, you may want to stay home. >>> alexander steele is in the cnn weather center. what's the latest on the storm? >> this holiday has been fraugh
so house republicans have kind of abdicated their role in this to the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. if perhaps he could get on board with something with democrats in the senate to move along, presumably that might be able to be pushed through the house. the house republicans at least some of them, would have to vote on that in order to pass it so they have some i guess influence in that regard, but really they've given away a lot of their -- almost all of their influence on what this...
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Dec 29, 2012
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senators reed and mcconnell will try to come to a deal. but they will try to passes a bill on the two key democratic priorities and dare republicans to block it. and they will not be able to do it, at least not for long. >> if we get down to the end of the year and the only choice we have is to keep the taxes from going up on the middle class, i will support that. >> a quote was given, mr. boehner said he wanted a deal along the lines that the two men negotiated in 2011, you missed your opportunity on that. president told him. cold. but what we know right now, what we know from that, is that john boehner wishes he could go back in time, go back to 2011, and get the deal that the president offered him then. mr. boehner wants another bite at the 2011 deal, because the president was going to stop $800 billion on taxes on the rich. in a few months the republicans will want to go back to 2012, to right now, and get the deal that the president offered them a week ago, which raise $1.2 trillion in taxes. if we get a small deal, because they come
senators reed and mcconnell will try to come to a deal. but they will try to passes a bill on the two key democratic priorities and dare republicans to block it. and they will not be able to do it, at least not for long. >> if we get down to the end of the year and the only choice we have is to keep the taxes from going up on the middle class, i will support that. >> a quote was given, mr. boehner said he wanted a deal along the lines that the two men negotiated in 2011, you missed...
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Dec 29, 2012
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senators reid and mcconnell will try to come to a deal. if they fail, the white house and harry reid are going to try to jam through a bill that increases taxes on rich people and extends unemployment insurance, which are the two key democratic priorities. they'll pretty much dare republicans to block it. and republicans probably won't be able to, at least not for long. here's johnny isaacson, a republican senator from georgia, over the weekend. >> if we get down to the end of this year, and the only choice we have is to save taxes going up on the middle class, then i would support that. >> last weekend, "the wall street journal" had a great piece going behind the scenes on the fiscal cliff negotiations. and in it, they quoted this exchange between speaker boehner and president obama. mr. boehner said he wanted to deal along the lines what the two men had negotiated, summer of 2011, in the fight over raising the debt ceiling. "you missed your opportunity on that," the president told him. cold. but what we know right now, what we know from
senators reid and mcconnell will try to come to a deal. if they fail, the white house and harry reid are going to try to jam through a bill that increases taxes on rich people and extends unemployment insurance, which are the two key democratic priorities. they'll pretty much dare republicans to block it. and republicans probably won't be able to, at least not for long. here's johnny isaacson, a republican senator from georgia, over the weekend. >> if we get down to the end of this year,...
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Dec 22, 2012
12/12
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derek mcconnell and chris teen that dress ler have been together since 2006. a little more than a year ago something terrible happened. derek a u.s. army specialist suffered serious injuries while serving in afghanistan. two ied explosions left him in critical condition. and forced him to have both of his legs amputated. the couple stuck together and now thanks to a new jersey jeweler, the two are about to tie the knot. christina and derek join us now. welcome. >> how are you? >> we're great. great to see you guys. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> let's talk about what a long road this has been for you personally and you as a couple. we mentioned you were the victim of an ied attack. tell us about your injuries. >> july 2011. i lost my left leg completely the worst part was the inection ifs i spent seven months in the hospital battling those. >> you were seven months in the hospital and as soon as you arrived back herance i understand it on u.s. soil you were 53 days in the intensive care unit. and christina, you were by his side. >> yeah. >> the entire ti
derek mcconnell and chris teen that dress ler have been together since 2006. a little more than a year ago something terrible happened. derek a u.s. army specialist suffered serious injuries while serving in afghanistan. two ied explosions left him in critical condition. and forced him to have both of his legs amputated. the couple stuck together and now thanks to a new jersey jeweler, the two are about to tie the knot. christina and derek join us now. welcome. >> how are you? >>...
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Dec 30, 2012
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well, bill, you just heard mitch mcconnell say he is hopeful and optimistic. will congress pass something in the next 48 hours, something to avoid the fiscal cliff? >> i don't know. but i guess probably. and it will be a bad deal but i suppose better than doing nothing. amazing every working american's taxes will go up on january 1. they are doing nothing about the payroll tax which is a big increase, 2%. and we will have totally irresponsible defense cuts. everybody agrees this is probably bad policy to have middle class americans taxes go up and this is what congress thinks is a good deal. >> chris: i'm not sure they think it is a good deal but a deal that avoids the worst of the fiscal cliff. senator bayh, obviously we don't know what is your sense? no filibuster in the senate. you heard what lindsey graham said and do republicans pass whatever it is that the senate agrees to? >> i think the odds are some what better than 50/50, chris, that we get a minimal deal in the senate. not one that solves our debt problem as you pointed out earlier and this is all j
well, bill, you just heard mitch mcconnell say he is hopeful and optimistic. will congress pass something in the next 48 hours, something to avoid the fiscal cliff? >> i don't know. but i guess probably. and it will be a bad deal but i suppose better than doing nothing. amazing every working american's taxes will go up on january 1. they are doing nothing about the payroll tax which is a big increase, 2%. and we will have totally irresponsible defense cuts. everybody agrees this is...
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Dec 23, 2012
12/12
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if they can come up with something and mcconnell would have to agree not to filibuster, if they could come up with something and pass it and then send it back to the house and if boehner would permit a vote knowing he would only have a minority of his own party and he would have enough democratic votes to pass it, those are two things that have to happen. whether those can happen qukly enough to raw void the cliff remains to be seen. but it will take some cooperation on the senate side and boehner's willingness to let it come up in the senate knowing his own party won't necessarily support -- won't support it enough to avoid the cliff. we need some leadership here. >> matt it has to come from both parties and from the president. and let's face it, congressional approval ratings are a low, low. what is the impact of this? do you think american voters are sick and tired of things coming down to the wire? they will be hit hard? just about everybody after the first of the year if nothing is settled. >> i think that is why. that's why i think the congressional approval ratings tend to be l
if they can come up with something and mcconnell would have to agree not to filibuster, if they could come up with something and pass it and then send it back to the house and if boehner would permit a vote knowing he would only have a minority of his own party and he would have enough democratic votes to pass it, those are two things that have to happen. whether those can happen qukly enough to raw void the cliff remains to be seen. but it will take some cooperation on the senate side and...
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Dec 28, 2012
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we have not heard a word from leader mcconnell. nothing is happening. >> reporter: mitch mcconnell, the top republican in the senate, said it's reid who hasn't reached out for weeks. >> the phone never rang. and so now here we are, five days from the new year, and we might finally start talking. >> reporter: but talking about what? so far, reid has not introduced the scaled-down bill he was reportedly working on over the christmas holiday. sources say that bill would extend the bush-era tax cuts for americans making less than $250,000 a year. with the clock ticking, reid pointed a finger at the house of representatives, which still hasn't returned to washington. >> i can't imagine their consciences. they're out wherever they are around the country, and we're here trying to get something done. >> reporter: from his home in ohio, speaker boehner called on the house to come back this sunday, december 30. that's just one day before the fiscal cliff deadline when income tax cuts and payroll tax cuts are set to expire, $110 billion worth
we have not heard a word from leader mcconnell. nothing is happening. >> reporter: mitch mcconnell, the top republican in the senate, said it's reid who hasn't reached out for weeks. >> the phone never rang. and so now here we are, five days from the new year, and we might finally start talking. >> reporter: but talking about what? so far, reid has not introduced the scaled-down bill he was reportedly working on over the christmas holiday. sources say that bill would extend...
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Dec 30, 2012
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mitch mcconnell telling us they have been going back and forth all day and the talks are continue nooght evening. no major progress yet to report. and that is how fox reports on this saturday december 29th. i'm harris falkner. tune in tomorrow as the fiscal cliff deadline nears on the eve of the last stock market day of the year, we will be all over it. with deadlines, they are trying to get a vote, trying to get it together. huck uh key starts -- huck uh booy starts now. >>> out with the old and in with the new. what does 2013 have in store? obama care. over a third of the states won't set up exchanges needed. >> to have an unknown cause factor pressed upon us is something irresponsible in my opinion for us to assume. >> the georgia governor on what needs to be fixed before obama care becomes law. then regulation nation. while the president promises green energy, environmental rules have choked the industry and sent millions to the unemployment lines. >> he is bound and determined to have that level of taxation out of the country. >> the new taxes that lie ahead. and getting married? bu
mitch mcconnell telling us they have been going back and forth all day and the talks are continue nooght evening. no major progress yet to report. and that is how fox reports on this saturday december 29th. i'm harris falkner. tune in tomorrow as the fiscal cliff deadline nears on the eve of the last stock market day of the year, we will be all over it. with deadlines, they are trying to get a vote, trying to get it together. huck uh key starts -- huck uh booy starts now. >>> out with...
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Dec 28, 2012
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. >> president obama has invited nancy pelosi, john boehner, mitch mcconnell, and harry reid to the white house this afternoon for a fiscal cliff summit. >> here we are five days from the new year, and we might finally start talking. >> today's white house meeting might be the last chance to come to an agreement. that's because it takes time for a bill to work its way through both chamber of commerce. >> i don't know time wise how it can happen now. >> under senate rules, the only way a bill could make its way through the procedural hurdles in time is if every senator agrees not to. they'll have 24 hours. outside the beltway, carlino will be watching. >> everyone is kind of in a wait-and-see and fingers-crossed per expect tichb right now. >> since 1930 this is only the fifth time congress has worked after christmas. and today's summit is the first time president obama has met face to face with congressional leaders since mid-november. duarte, tick tock. >> thank you. >>> general schwarzkopf is being remembered this morning as a great hero and tactician. as teresa garcia the general died y
. >> president obama has invited nancy pelosi, john boehner, mitch mcconnell, and harry reid to the white house this afternoon for a fiscal cliff summit. >> here we are five days from the new year, and we might finally start talking. >> today's white house meeting might be the last chance to come to an agreement. that's because it takes time for a bill to work its way through both chamber of commerce. >> i don't know time wise how it can happen now. >> under senate...
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Dec 28, 2012
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guest: senator mcconnell is a pro at this kind of negotiation. he's going into this white house meeting saying, give us your proposal, let us see what you want to do, we will be willing to look at whatever you present. the potential problem is what the white house will present is something they are presented before that senator mcconnell has said no to. either the white house will get more creative so that they will have something host: they can look at this photograph of the democratic leader harry reid in the "new york times, returning to the u.s. capitol. his shadow. what's the relationship between harry reid and mitch mcconnell? guest: it's hard to tell. the rhetoric on the senate floor can be pretty tough. they call each other my dear friend whenever you want them on the c-span channels, but i think they both are in a frustrating position. senator harry reid does not have more than 60 members, so we cannot block a filibuster but senator mcconnell is adept at applying in cases where he'd want to block legislation. but i think they both have r
guest: senator mcconnell is a pro at this kind of negotiation. he's going into this white house meeting saying, give us your proposal, let us see what you want to do, we will be willing to look at whatever you present. the potential problem is what the white house will present is something they are presented before that senator mcconnell has said no to. either the white house will get more creative so that they will have something host: they can look at this photograph of the democratic leader...
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Dec 24, 2012
12/12
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senate republican leader mcconnell is critical to hammering out a deal because he can filibuster any legislation, but his spokesperson says this morning quote, nothing new to report. we don't know yet what senator reid plans to bring to the senate for a vote. >> when i listen to the president, i think the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. i think he sees a political victory at the bottom of the cliff. he gets all additional tax revenue for new programs. he gets to cut the military which democrats have been calling for for years, and he gets to blame republicans for it. >> what we ought to do is take speaker boehner's last offer, the president's last offer, split the difference, that would be a package of about 2.6 trillion dollars. you couple that with the 1.1 trillion that's already been done, that would be close to the 4 trillion dollars that's needed to stabilize the debt and begin to bring it down. peter: the president and the speaker say they will cut their vacation short to return to washington later this week to try to get back to work to hammer s
senate republican leader mcconnell is critical to hammering out a deal because he can filibuster any legislation, but his spokesperson says this morning quote, nothing new to report. we don't know yet what senator reid plans to bring to the senate for a vote. >> when i listen to the president, i think the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. i think he sees a political victory at the bottom of the cliff. he gets all additional tax revenue for new programs. he...
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Dec 25, 2012
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in past years senator mitch mcconnell stepped in and been able to negotiate a compromise. this time through twitter he's telling folks that he is not going to step in. he says that the president needs the lead. now our sources saying that senate majority leader harry reid is working on his own plan. it's a smaller package that he's working on. that package would avoid middle class tax hikes that would happen if this fiscal cliff deadline comes. his package also has some spending cuts. however the problem with his package is that he hasn't talked to any republicans. it's not a bipartisan package. he's working on this by himself to hopefully step in and maybe make a compromise himself. but begin this deadline's looming and you know tuesday is going to come pretty quickly. >> well, they need to get back to work. enjoy the holiday back to work tonight if not tomorrow. okay edward lawrence, thanks so much have a great holiday and thanks for that live interview. >>> well it is not just the fiscal cliff that we're closing in on. probably never heard of this one. there could be a
in past years senator mitch mcconnell stepped in and been able to negotiate a compromise. this time through twitter he's telling folks that he is not going to step in. he says that the president needs the lead. now our sources saying that senate majority leader harry reid is working on his own plan. it's a smaller package that he's working on. that package would avoid middle class tax hikes that would happen if this fiscal cliff deadline comes. his package also has some spending cuts. however...
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Dec 29, 2012
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mitch mcconnell, all of them. you know, would you say your interest is to not let him be president for a second term, that means you have to go against everything so he would not be significant, like you are trying to tear him down. you are tearing everybody down. this is my thought. how is it that we the american people allow our senators and representatives to go against our better good? nothing they have done has been for the american people. it is not so hard to see that everything they have done has been to hurt not just the middle class, the poor. people on social security. everything the talk about is hurting other people. is it those that have the most that want to keep the most and make the ones that have the least pay for all the most the want to have? we have to wake up and get out and vote. this is not -- if we had got out and vote in 2010, this will not be happening. host: a couple more items from a facebook this morning. back to the telephones. david in fairfax station, virginia is on the line for re
mitch mcconnell, all of them. you know, would you say your interest is to not let him be president for a second term, that means you have to go against everything so he would not be significant, like you are trying to tear him down. you are tearing everybody down. this is my thought. how is it that we the american people allow our senators and representatives to go against our better good? nothing they have done has been for the american people. it is not so hard to see that everything they...
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Dec 29, 2012
12/12
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senators reed and mcconnell are discussing a potential agreement where we get a bipartisan bill out of the senate over to the house and done in a timely fashion so that we met the december 31st deadline. >> we'll be working hard to see if we can try to get there in the next 24 hours. so i'm hopeful and optimistic. >> senate leaders say they're hoping to come back with a proposal as early as sunday. >> whatever we come up with will be imperfect. some people aren't gonna like it. some people will like it less but that's where we are. >> the president said if agreement isn't reached by the deadline, he will urge the senate majority leader to hold a vote on a basic package, one that ensures taxes don't rison middle and lower income americans. in washington, sally kidd, wbal tv 11 news. >>> house will hold a rare sunday session. votes are scheduled for early evening but smeeker boehner isn't expected to put anything on the floor for a vote unless he is sure that it can pass. also this sunday, president obama will be david gregory's guest on "meet the press." you can watch the interview righ
senators reed and mcconnell are discussing a potential agreement where we get a bipartisan bill out of the senate over to the house and done in a timely fashion so that we met the december 31st deadline. >> we'll be working hard to see if we can try to get there in the next 24 hours. so i'm hopeful and optimistic. >> senate leaders say they're hoping to come back with a proposal as early as sunday. >> whatever we come up with will be imperfect. some people aren't gonna like...
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Dec 28, 2012
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where we are awaiting boehner, pelosi, reid, mcconnell. all the major players to go into the white house, meet with the president, try to get a fiscal deal done. that meeting, 3:00 p.m. eastern time, in other words, in about eight minutes from now. any headline that comes out of it, you will hear first right here on the worldwide leader in business news. all right. let's forget theory for a moment and find out how the cliff may impact real businesses right here in america, so let's reconvene our "street signs" small business all-star panel. joining us president and owner of maria's italian kitchen and a new face to cnbc, david martin from h.j. martin & son in green bay who i met when i walked into his family store this summer and got a tour of the place. david, thank you very much for joining us. madeline, first, are you worried? are you customers going to stop eating at maria's if we go over the fiscal cliff? >> i don't know, brian. i've got my parachute packed. how about you? >> pasta parachute? that's terrible, sorry. >> full of lots of
where we are awaiting boehner, pelosi, reid, mcconnell. all the major players to go into the white house, meet with the president, try to get a fiscal deal done. that meeting, 3:00 p.m. eastern time, in other words, in about eight minutes from now. any headline that comes out of it, you will hear first right here on the worldwide leader in business news. all right. let's forget theory for a moment and find out how the cliff may impact real businesses right here in america, so let's reconvene...
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Dec 27, 2012
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we talked briefly about this earlier, but mitch mcconnell has a senate election in 2014. and if there's been one thing that's been noted over the past year, it's these crazy senate challengers have the chance of knocking off a person in the primary. and i'm assuming that mitch mcconnell knows that. >> this is great. this is great. we love this. tension at the convention of both ends of pennsylvania avenue, the white house, congress. this is terrific stuff. kurt, stay with us, okay? can you. we're begging you, begging you. >> you're adding gravitas to this. >>> we'll also bring in nbc news political director, chuck todd, also nbc white house correspo corresponde correspondent. >>> first, dylan dreyer with the forecast. >> we are going to see a good amount of snow across northern new england today. another one to two feet of snow possible. because of that, we do have winter storm warnings once again in effect. and this storm is just continuing to wreak havoc on the airports. that's the problem with the holiday travelers all taking up the flights that were all canceled yeste
we talked briefly about this earlier, but mitch mcconnell has a senate election in 2014. and if there's been one thing that's been noted over the past year, it's these crazy senate challengers have the chance of knocking off a person in the primary. and i'm assuming that mitch mcconnell knows that. >> this is great. this is great. we love this. tension at the convention of both ends of pennsylvania avenue, the white house, congress. this is terrific stuff. kurt, stay with us, okay? can...
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Dec 23, 2012
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can mitch mcconnell or anyone on the republican sidestep forward in these last nine days remains to be seen. >> david drucker, to you. we had senator chuck schumer saying we were this close to getting a deal done. how close is "this close" now? and what did that entail? >> well, you know, i think it depends on what you think is "this close." from what we can tell, it looked as though speaker boehner and president obama were getting towards a formula of spending cuts and entitlement reform in exchange for tax increases in terms of rates going up on some level of higher income earners, and there's evidence that the president was willing to move from his $250,000 position to somewhere up around $400,000. of course the speaker was always looking to cap it at a million. but clearly they didn't feel they were getting somewhere, which is why the speaker was then running his plan b, which ultimately failed. look, i think that there is a deal that could get enough republican votes in a majority of republican votes in the house to raise income tax rates on higher earners. but in order to get rep
can mitch mcconnell or anyone on the republican sidestep forward in these last nine days remains to be seen. >> david drucker, to you. we had senator chuck schumer saying we were this close to getting a deal done. how close is "this close" now? and what did that entail? >> well, you know, i think it depends on what you think is "this close." from what we can tell, it looked as though speaker boehner and president obama were getting towards a formula of spending...
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house speaker john boehner, mitch mcconnell representing the republicans. brianna keilar live from washington. what do we expect to happen today? any new offers from the president or house speaker? >> we don't know. right now, all eyes on the senate to see what senate majority leader harry reid can cobble together to get some republican support. technically, it's still possible to come to an agreement. that said, politically is a different story, and the prospects for coming to a deal are starting to dim. right now, we're hearing a whole lot of the blame game. a lot of public posturing from both sides as they prepare for the possibility of going over the cliff. let's listen to harry reid. >> we are here in washington working while members of the house of representatives are out watching movies and watching their kids play soccer and basketball and doing all kinds of things. they should be here. >> now, the speaker of the house, john boehner, sort of retorting to reid, ali. in a conference call he said the leaders should do more -- or pardon me. less talking
house speaker john boehner, mitch mcconnell representing the republicans. brianna keilar live from washington. what do we expect to happen today? any new offers from the president or house speaker? >> we don't know. right now, all eyes on the senate to see what senate majority leader harry reid can cobble together to get some republican support. technically, it's still possible to come to an agreement. that said, politically is a different story, and the prospects for coming to a deal are...
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Dec 28, 2012
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mitch mcconnell voted for tarp i could go on and on. for all of the tough talk, look at the word hopeful or optimistic. it is there. host: we will john boehner face a challenge to speaker? guest: there is grumbling, but the feeling is no. i did not think so. one of the most significant things that happened, going back to that press conference one week ago when the talk was in the air, eric cantor stood by his side, and that was a signal that if anybody is going to challenge him, it might be eric cantor. he will not challenge. he is absolutely on board. host: david lightman, thank you as always for being with us. guest: thank you for having me. host: we will check in with you again and your dog. every friday we look at america by the numbers. today, we want to focus on the issue of hunger in america. "washington journal" continues. negotiations are resuming this afternoon at 3:00 p.m. eastern time. [applause] >> there are cynics said that a party platform is something nobody bothers to read and it does not amount to much. whether it is d
mitch mcconnell voted for tarp i could go on and on. for all of the tough talk, look at the word hopeful or optimistic. it is there. host: we will john boehner face a challenge to speaker? guest: there is grumbling, but the feeling is no. i did not think so. one of the most significant things that happened, going back to that press conference one week ago when the talk was in the air, eric cantor stood by his side, and that was a signal that if anybody is going to challenge him, it might be...
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Dec 24, 2012
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success depends partly on whether mitch mcconnell decides to filibuster any legislation. there is senate republicans who are willing to compromise in order to avoid the fiscal cliff. including kay bailey hutchison of texas and johnny isakson of georgia. >> time is running out. and the truth of the matter is, if we do fall off the cliff after the president's maturitied, he'll come back, propose just what he proposed yesterday in leaving washington and we'll end up adopting it. why should we put the markets mn such turmoil and the people in misunderstanding or lack of confidence? why don't we go ahead and act now? >> the president is insisting tacks go up for the wealthy, but he's now scaled back his expectations for the rest of the year focusing only on a middle class tax cut and extended unemployment benefits. he said he still thinks some kind of deal can be reached, but that optimism is not shared by everyone. >> in the aftermath of the house republicans rejecting speaker boehner's so-called plan b, it's the first time that i feel it's more likely that we will go over th
success depends partly on whether mitch mcconnell decides to filibuster any legislation. there is senate republicans who are willing to compromise in order to avoid the fiscal cliff. including kay bailey hutchison of texas and johnny isakson of georgia. >> time is running out. and the truth of the matter is, if we do fall off the cliff after the president's maturitied, he'll come back, propose just what he proposed yesterday in leaving washington and we'll end up adopting it. why should...
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Dec 22, 2012
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>>reporter: senate republican leader mitch mcconnell said the next move needs to come from the president. >> he is the only one that can do it. this isn't john boehner's problem to solve. >>reporter: without a deal, steep tax hikes and massive government spending cuts are set to trigger after january first. in washington, i'm karin caifa. kron4 news for a more >> indepth look into the into the challenges, the president and congress face -- as the fiscal cliff deadline ticks forward. kron4's political analyst will join us tonight, at 5:30. >> pam: police now say the deadly home invasion -- that rocked a wealthy silicon valley suburb -- was *not random. raven dixon was arraigned in a santa clara court today on charges of being an accessory to the murder of raveesh kumar kumra durung a home invasion-- back on november 30th. dixon was led out of the san jose courtroom in chains after the judge put her bail at one million. a pre-trial hearing is set for the middle of january. >> in san jose, police ordered a school locked down after a pair of robbery suspects retrieved a gun from the backyard
>>reporter: senate republican leader mitch mcconnell said the next move needs to come from the president. >> he is the only one that can do it. this isn't john boehner's problem to solve. >>reporter: without a deal, steep tax hikes and massive government spending cuts are set to trigger after january first. in washington, i'm karin caifa. kron4 news for a more >> indepth look into the into the challenges, the president and congress face -- as the fiscal cliff deadline...
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that was senator reid and mcconnell and congressman hoyer in washington. brian sullivan is here and refuse rend al sharpton and richard wolf on assignment and joining us on set is rana and in washington eugene robinson. gene, thanks for getting dragged out of bed this morning. what was your initial reaction watching that clip of those three guys talking about this thing? >> you know, where are we? my initial feeling was this isn't going anywhere, and we have to go over the cliff and then they'll fix it. that's amy initial reaction. it doesn't sound like there's anything productive happening, if that's what everybody is still saying about the state of the negotiations. there don't seem to be any real negotiations. >> i have to say, i ought thought this is exactly where we'd be right now. in the beginning i couldn't believe it. >> why did you think that? >> because she's smarter than you. >> i middle east everybody is. >> i called up our washington bureau chief who is smart. right after the elections when everybody started, markets actually went up. there wa
that was senator reid and mcconnell and congressman hoyer in washington. brian sullivan is here and refuse rend al sharpton and richard wolf on assignment and joining us on set is rana and in washington eugene robinson. gene, thanks for getting dragged out of bed this morning. what was your initial reaction watching that clip of those three guys talking about this thing? >> you know, where are we? my initial feeling was this isn't going anywhere, and we have to go over the cliff and then...